Why do engines fail to solve a 400 year old chess puzzle?

Here is a chess puzzle composed by Gioachino Greco. This was created in 1623 and its black to move and draw the game. He was an Italian chess player and writer. He recorded some of the earliest chess games known. His games, all against anonymous opponents (“NN”), were quite possibly constructs but served as highly useful tools for spotting opening traps. Mikhail Botvinnik considered Greco to be the first professional chess player. In this video I am showing how chess engine Komodo 10 fails to solve it and attempt to answer why that happens !
Gioachino Greco, 1623
Black to move and draw
This position in Forsyth-Edwards Notation (FEN) is: r7/8/8/5bk1/8/5B2/5RPP/6K1 b – – 0 0
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  1. This problem sounds similar to the Traveling Salesman problem

  2. If white doesn't take the bishop and instead moves its pawn to G3, it can then bring its king into the action to get the pawn in the G file queened. If if stays on the dark squares, black's bishop can't do it ANY harm.

  3. Play many many awesome chess variants at jocly plaza. Please help pass the word.Thank you.

  4. What is life but the enjoyment of delusion? says:

    I know the reason.. chess was perfectly played in the ancient times.. engines appeared out of nowhere and destroyed chess. I'm sure those forebears would beat stockfish if they were alive today.

  5. Beautiful.Thank you of Brazil. Sign up for my YouTube Channel Eliana Correia Crochê.

  6. সুস্থতার সমীকরণ says:

    Why did u give infinite time।????🤣🤣🤣

  7. Thanks Suren, it's great to see limitations to chess engines! Jason Doucette has given an excellent explanation in comments. And don't some people think they know a lot.

  8. I just ran across this puzzle. I'm not sure why the engines you tested didn't find the solution, each one I tried found the correct move, but didn't always find the mate, which is in 16 moves. But I usually try these positions with endgame table bases turned off. I doubt a year and a half of engine development made that much difference. try it again with the newer engines you have.

  9. Suren, first… I love your videos, please keep up the great work…. Computers consider stupid moves, whereas humans dont? Not ture. Take the move Rook A2. Sure that's a silly move. How do we know? Well because we 'considered it' and ignored it. This is what the 'killer move' concept in AI deals with in the same way as humans. We do 'consider' silly moves, we just ignore them immediately, same as an engine.

  10. How is the problem solved? The white king can move to the front of pawns.

  11. I want to be shown how the puzzle continues on to achieve a draw ; otherwise I don't trust that is a draw and that komodo is actually correct in the moves it chooses . its a fake puzzle !

  12. My computer game did play all the "best" moves up to and including 3. …Bh3. It's Chessmaster 9000 v1.1.3 (2002-2004) (not particularly new as you can see), running on a 2013 Apple Mac Pro. It will play all moves indicated in the video, including that one (3. ..Bh3) in less than 60 seconds even though it's set to think up to a minute per move. It seems to think the position is only 0.14 "ahead" for white, but that's not saying that the game itself isn't drawn.

  13. This can be solved by any engine searching to ply 14…? Houdini does…

  14. Stockfish 9 shows its a draw with +0.08 evolution.

  15. el doble del primero como extra la 3ra parte el primero

  16. I found a better move for black to win.
    1. bC2 sacrificing bishop
    2. rook takes c2 bishop
    3. Black Rook to A1..
    4. White Bishop to D1
    5. Black rook takes bishop and its check again
    6. white has to sacrifice rook
    An then its 1 rook against 2 pawns.

  17. Black to move
    Stockfish 10 (on android) solved it in 9 moves.
    Within 1 second.

    Rf1 Rxf1+
    Kxf1 Bh3
    Kf2 Bxg2
    Bxg2 Kf6
    H3 Kg6
    H4 Kf6
    H5 Kg7
    H6+ Kxh6
    Draw by insufficient materials.

  18. Usually, engines always think for mating, it may be a reason.

  19. raise a voice little bit, please. It is hard to hear on phone speaker.

  20. Suren are you not feeling well? Your voice says so

  21. Hello there Suren. Nice presentation. The machine is limited but Man’s imagination is not.

  22. Why dont white play king F2 instead of paen H3

  23. The 'ch' is a hard k in Italian, gumbo

  24. I put this puzzle in stockfish and it solved it right away

  25. Can Lc0 not also solve it? How about the other neural nets? New version of SF? Or by SF running with superhardwares like Bluefish or Redfish?

  26. Soulved by Critter 1.6a and Sting15 in less than a sec.

  27. Stockfish says it is draw you can check out the analysis

  28. Don't be so critical… He's Armenian, English is not his native language. It took him a while to become fluent when he started his channel. Check out some new videos!

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